Tommy Lee joins Backstreet boys??

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Originally posted by IH Rich Rags:
OK, think about this. How many guys in your town are great mucisians?

You cannot fake Charisma. Motely Crue. I rest my case.

<font color="#FF0000"><font size="1">[ August 04, 2005 10:59 AM: Message edited by: IH Rich Rags ]</font></font>

<font color="#FF0000"><font size="1">[ August 04, 2005 11:02 AM: Message edited by: IH Rich Rags ]</font></font>

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<font size="4" face="Arial">Now we are fooling ourselves if we believe that either one has anything to do with success. It all boils down to that ol' "right time, right place, who ya know" factor.

I wouldn't say they have "charisma", as they had a "gimmick" that worked at the time.

Again, Van Halen, one of the biggest bands EVER. Roth was a brilliant front man, back by a brilliant bunch of musicians.

As Sandy commented though, Tommy Lee has always been held in high respects as far as his playing ability. In fact, he is considered one of the best drummers in his field. There is no doubt he is the most talented "player" in that band. Nikki has the talent in the writing.

Quite simply, a band from that era could not succeed without some talent. Now days? Yes. It's all tricks. Back then, they relied on their abilities and their gimmicks. It was a package deal.

But even today, you will not have a band walk on stage, look great, get the audience laughing, and then start to play in a way a 2 week guitar student would play, and then have them signed.

I guess I just get tired of seeing people being willing to let their music be dumbed down. The whole attitude of "you don't need talent to be good" is silly, and only leads itself back to the question of "do you listen to the music for the music, or for the way the band looks?".

I sat online "conversing" with Buttz a few years ago, before I had heard LOTTI, and he told me of how that band was terrible and had no talents. I was expecting pure piss. Then I got ahold of the album. I was shocked. The dang band had a TON of talent. Now knowing him (as well as I could through a message board and a handful of emails), I know how self-depracating he is, and how it is all a joke. But at the same time, it comes back to too many of us looking past our own musics real talents and skills, and suddenly accepting too many bands, because after all, what does talent matter?

I've seen bands praised on this site because we are starving for band. But the band that are getting praised are TERRIBLE, and should not be bands that "lead the scene". I would rather see Glam die a painful death than be turned over to the no-talent crap that is out there now.

Man, did I run off course. I just don't understand why we would ever say "Real Music doesn't need talent". My ass it doesn't. Then lets all go out and buy friggin' Psychic TV shit.

Oh, and it's not uncommon for a label to sign a band, and then have them kick out a member who isn't a strong enough musician.

<font color="#FF0000" size="1">[ August 04, 2005 11:28 AM: Message edited by: Carl I. ]</font>

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Originally posted by JayForSure:
Frankly, Dream Theatre, athough not my cuppa, is far more relevant than some two-bit noise merchant who has to rely on the gutter press to promote them.(NME...PUNK...)

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<font size="4" face="Arial">More Relevant to who? I guarantee a lot more musicians are influenced by Sex Pistols than they are Dream Theatre... The Sex Pistols defined a generation.. Dream Theatre define a bunch of geeks who can?t get laid (No offence to Dream Theatre).

I guess the point is, I?d prefer to listen to somebody like Andy McCoy or Johnny Thunders apposed to Yngwie Malmsteen.

Carl, here' the tracklisting and featured performers. Butch Walker comparison is spot on.

Oh and for the right place and time thing, I always think of Love Hate, I thought they were a killer band when they first came out but only the Brits seemed to realize that until they got dropped and faded into obscurity.

As for the talent thing. You know I watched this Paul Westerberg DVD a month ago. The guy isn't the greatest guitarist but he writes some really killer songs. I was in a band briefly with a guy who was an average guitarist, but he wrote the some of the coolest stonesy type songs I've ever heard. Unfortunately he died suddenly before most of the tunes were recorded . I've always wanted to redo a few of them and still might in the future just for fun and respect.

"Tommyland: The Ride" track listing:

01. Good Times (feat. Butch Walker)
02. Hello Again (feat. Andrew McMahon of SOMETHING CORPORATE)
03. Tryin' to be Me (feat. Chad Kroeger of NICKELBACK)
04. Sister Mary (feat. Carl Bell of FUEL)
05. The Butler
06. Tired (feat. Joel Madden of GOOD CHARLOTTE)
07. I Need You (feat. Andrew McMahon of SOMETHING CORPORATE)
08. Make Believe
09. Makin' Me Crazy (feat. Dirty Harry)
10. Watch You Lose
11. Say Goodbye (feat. Nick Carter of BACKSTREET BOYS)
12. Hello Again (acoustic)

<font color="#FF0000" size="1">[ August 04, 2005 05:32 PM: Message edited by: Hazardous ]</font>

Is this album out in the States?

The only artist I don't consider a joke that is guesting on Tommy Lee's album is Dirty Harry.. if that is the female Dirty Harry from the UK.

I love Motley Crue and Tommy seems like a cool guy.. but WTH?!? Collaborating with the Backstreet Boys, Good Charlotte and Nickleback? That is sickening.

Some interesting points. At no point I am saying that you can get by without any skill as a player. Continuing to use Crue as the example here, if you have read the Dirt, Nikki Sixx, Tommy. and MM all make it absolutely clear that they were still lacking the spark to ignite the fire until Vince joined. I am just of the opinion that chemistry is a more powerful ingridient to a band than great mucisianship. Furthermore, the Dirt leaves you in no doubt as to Vince Neils agenda. VN wanted to be a star and shag as many women as he could. Fair play to him. He has never pretended to be much more than a horny old beach bum with a fair pair of lungs on him. Look what happened when Corabi joined. The Scream were a far more accomplished set of musicians than Crue and Corabi is technically a far better singer than Vince. He's also far more versatile guitarist than MM. He has a much bigger range and a much richer and soulful voice.
However, all these technical attributes add up to squat. The fact remains that, despite Crue's constant attempts of convice themselves, the chemistry was just that bit off. Coarabi was just too in awe for the fact that he was now in MC, plus he was left in no doubt that he was a hired gun and not a real member. Mick ends up playing half the guitar parts becuase Tommy, Nikki & The producer thought Corabi was a better player than Mick. Mick now dispondent and feeling like a foreskin at a bamitzvah. The end result was a very competent album that no one bought. The fans could not really accept Corabi (and Guitar) as a Crue front man and the wheels fell off the band. Re Enter Vince and the magic was back again. I still think that the X factor is all important. Without it you are just a bunch of guys who can play (maybe brilliantly) There are f**king millions of those about but not everyone has that X.
And in reference to LOTTI. I saw them shit loads of times over the years and, despite Buttz's self depreciation, (That's a first) the reason everyone loved them was becuase they had mountains of presonality and charisma. Fat Boy was the ring master of this mad burlesque circus. Hovis, Shuff, Dave who cant Behave, Salvador darlek, Vom, The Incedible Drinking man, Billy thre Willy! It was glam rock variety show!
You only have to read his posts on here to realize Buttz could have been a comedian. He was (and remains) an entertainer. That is why people loved LOTTI. Fuck musicianship. it was just good simple pop tunes and a great show.

<font color="#FF0000" size="1">[ August 05, 2005 02:55 AM: Message edited by: IH Rich Rags ]</font>

Ian I agree with all you say above and think also the x-factor is the thing that makes it.
When I was with my last band, It was not about musicianship as we were all mediocre, but when we played together we were entertaining and sounded good as a unit. But we were never that good, that we were ever gonna get anywhere, but it was fun while it lasted. [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Carl has made some great comments.

OK, there were a bunch of local bands in my area that got signed right after the big Grunge era took off

Stick- Before they were signed to Arista they were told to ditch there female lead singer. That is why they got signed.

Kill Creek- A band that should have made it but never did

Paw- The Grunge wanna be's that started it all.

And i'm going just by Lawrence, KS bands. Not even touching KC bands. I'm sure i'm missing a lot of bands in the area that should have made it but didn't. Right now the band from are area is Puddle of Mudd. ICK

Andy, Ginger is another great example. Ginger is a pretty decent guitar player. He is certainly no slouch but The Wildhearts are loved by alot of people becuase they are a great live band and write great songs. Without great songs you are just a musician.
Up in Yorkshie we had a local guitarist who was widley touted as the 'best guitarist in town' He worked in a local music store and on a saturday afternoon he would sit there surrounded by hordes of oiky little metalheads showing off his fret-tapping and pentatonic scales and all that bollocks. He could play everything like the record. Anything by Van Halen Ywigie, Frank Marino, you name it. And could he write a song? Could he fuck! Plays in a club band knocking out Cher songs.